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WootBot


quality posts: 17 Private Messages WootBot

Staff

2 Pack NETGEAR PowerLINE Outlet

Last Purchase:
10 months ago
Order Pace (rank):
Top 8% of Computers Woots
Top 19% of all Woots
Woots Sold (rank):
Top 0% of Computers Woots
Top 2% of all Woots

elbarto2


quality posts: 0 Private Messages elbarto2

Powerline does itself no favors by neglecting to include whether it works across circuits.

I've been burned (figuratively) by purchasing powerline devices in the past, hoping to extend a wired signal to a remote part of the house.

Problem is, even small apartments have 2-3 circuits, and if the device can't traverse them, it's useless.

Some are, some aren't, but none say, so all go unsold.

neilgriffeth


quality posts: 1 Private Messages neilgriffeth

i got some of these as a last-ditch effort to extend wi-fi into the basement of an older all-brick house, not expecting much. HOLY GUACAMOLE it works - and, not only is it on a different circuit, it's in the newly finished basement on a sub-panel from the rest of the house's electrical panel. i literally didn't lose a meg of my 100/mps internet connection. never thought it would work, but man did it ever. i'm buying another set to plug my tv into a wired connection and have another router on the other end of the house

Sage97


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Sage97

I realized that this particular product is for wired connections only. Not wifi. Still in for one. Hope it works.

rmsalt


quality posts: 17 Private Messages rmsalt

I'm assuming I can add a 4 port router switch to the receiving end of this device? I want to hardwire my Roku, Smart TV and Directv receiver. Is this possible?

Jon651


quality posts: 43 Private Messages Jon651
elbarto2 wrote:Powerline does itself no favors by neglecting to include whether it works across circuits.

I've been burned (figuratively) by purchasing powerline devices in the past, hoping to extend a wired signal to a remote part of the house.

Problem is, even small apartments have 2-3 circuits, and if the device can't traverse them, it's useless.

Some are, some aren't, but none say, so all go unsold.



Not QUITE right, but pretty close. The vast majority of residential electrical systems are divided into two "sides" (for simplicity's sake). You can see each side in the breaker box - there are two columns of breakers, left and right.

A powerline adapter will work best on different circuits that are both on the same "side" (both on the left, or both on the right) of the breaker box as each side is connected by a common positive power conductor for all the breakers on that side. This way the signal from each adapter has a common path to both circuits, but not so much if the two circuits are on opposite sides of the box from each other.

Some powerline adapters also have issues with circuits that use GFI or GFCI outlets, so best to avoid them if possible.

Just something to consider when using these adapters.

bitman362


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bitman362

Anyone considered that this is not very secure?
On WiFi you have encryption like WAP2 (even with Krack, its better than nothing).
Ethernet has no encrption because its supposed to be point-to-point. So scattering it over power lines means just about anybody can tap in.
Got an outside plug? That's now an entry point into your home network.
Enjoy...

geovillage


quality posts: 4 Private Messages geovillage

Target is trying to out do Woot. It's a good price on Woot, and if you include the free shipping from Target, a slightly better price there:https://www.target.com/p/netgear-powerline-1000-pl1000/-/A-50587960

Surefoot


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Surefoot
bitman362 wrote:Anyone considered that this is not very secure?
On WiFi you have encryption like WAP2 (even with Krack, its better than nothing).
Ethernet has no encrption because its supposed to be point-to-point. So scattering it over power lines means just about anybody can tap in.
Got an outside plug? That's now an entry point into your home network.
Enjoy...



Push-and-Secure

Encrypts powerline network connections with the touch of a button

alphanode


quality posts: 0 Private Messages alphanode

I just purchased. I did a quick search to see if there was something as good for less out there. I found for 30% less another brand (TP Link) but it was only 200 Mbps, and didn't have the extra outlet built in.

geovillage wrote:Target is trying to out do Woot. It's a good price on Woot, and if you include the free shipping from Target, a slightly better price there:https://www.target.com/p/netgear-powerline-1000-pl1000/-/A-50587960


Yea, but no extra outlet, so I'll take the woot one over the one at target.

rmsalt wrote:I'm assuming I can add a 4 port router switch to the receiving end of this device? I want to hardwire my Roku, Smart TV and Directv receiver. Is this possible?


I don't know about this specific device, but I can't imagine a reason why it wouldn't work. All this device should be doing is converting the data on the ethernet device into a signal that can be passed over the electrical wires and interpreted by the device on the other end. Whether that information is packets from a single computer or multiple computers connected to a hub/switch shouldn't matter. Furthermore, they seem to indicate you can connect multiple of these on the same electrical circuit, so I would say that further supports the argument that you can have lots of data going across the wires at once.

CAPICINC


quality posts: 0 Private Messages CAPICINC
rmsalt wrote:I'm assuming I can add a 4 port router switch to the receiving end of this device? I want to hardwire my Roku, Smart TV and Directv receiver. Is this possible?



Yes. They act as Ethernet drops, so it's better to think of them as hardware level devices, even though they're powered.

bmfb1980


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bmfb1980
rmsalt wrote:I'm assuming I can add a 4 port router switch to the receiving end of this device? I want to hardwire my Roku, Smart TV and Directv receiver. Is this possible?



Yes, you can. Don't confuse "router" with "switch" though. You should only have 1 router in your entire network. You can have 1,000 switches.

fuzzbox


quality posts: 3 Private Messages fuzzbox

Description says 2-pack, but I assume you need a MINIMUM of 2 units to work- 1 transmit and 1 receive. So is it 2 packages of 2 units, or 1 package with 2 units?

Along that line, are the units able to become either transmit or receive, or are they specific?

My end goal would be to set up a cable modem in my basement, plug this unit in there, then set up an individual wireless router on each floor of my house fed from the signal from these, so I think this technically should work, right?

bmfb1980


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bmfb1980
Jon651 wrote:Not QUITE right, but pretty close. The vast majority of residential electrical systems are divided into two "sides" (for simplicity's sake). You can see each side in the breaker box - there are two columns of breakers, left and right.

A powerline adapter will work best on different circuits that are both on the same "side" (both on the left, or both on the right) of the breaker box as each side is connected by a common positive power conductor for all the breakers on that side. This way the signal from each adapter has a common path to both circuits, but not so much if the two circuits are on opposite sides of the box from each other.

Some powerline adapters also have issues with circuits that use GFI or GFCI outlets, so best to avoid them if possible.

Just something to consider when using these adapters.



The proper term is "phase" for each side of the board. If your devices are all on the same phase, they are technically all inter-connected electrically. (A lightning strike will confirm that's why some of your things fry and some do not, based on which phase of the household current carried the lightning bolt to the ground.)

bmfb1980


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bmfb1980
fuzzbox wrote:Description says 2-pack, but I assume you need a MINIMUM of 2 units to work- 1 transmit and 1 receive. So is it 2 packages of 2 units, or 1 package with 2 units?

Along that line, are the units able to become either transmit or receive, or are they specific?

My end goal would be to set up a cable modem in my basement, plug this unit in there, then set up an individual wireless router on each floor of my house fed from the signal from these, so I think this technically should work, right?



[sigh] you can only have 1 router on your network. if you have more than 1, DCHP must be disabled on all but 1 (unless you are doing something fancy with subnets). Your router should be connected to the modem by 1 ethernet cable.

This isn't truly "wireless", and the signal isn't being "transformed" into something else as both ethernet cable and electrical wire are COPPER. Just saying. You're basically converting your ethernet plug into an electrical one so you can utilize the copper wire inside your walls already, instead of wiring new ethernet.

Make sure the units are on the same phase electrically, else they won't work.

I wouldn't put these on the same phase as any heavy electrical appliance (ie. A/C) or one that generates electrical noise (i.e. the kitchen blender).

Actually, if you want an exceptional solution... go with wireless access points. Put one on the TOP floor, so the signal penetrates down through the floors. The "unifi" series from ubiquiti products are AWWWWWSOME. I have 2 on my property, and my home WiFi covers 3.5 ACRES of wooded property. so yeah... the unifi units rock.

bmfb1980


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bmfb1980
alphanode wrote:All this device should be doing is converting the data on the ethernet device into a signal that can be passed over the electrical wires and interpreted by the device on the other end.



This device does NO coverting of signal whatsoever. The ethernet cable is COPPER wire. Your household electrical lines are COPPER wire. COPPER = COPPER. Your network could care less if your naughty digital bits are traveling on ethernet or electrical lines as they are the SAME media. These things ONLY serve as adapters from ethernet port to standard electrical plug.

Conversion occurs if you go from copper to radio waves, but not copper to copper. This is not a magical conversion (collusion?) device.

And no, even without encrypting the signal, a cable connection is FAR more secure than WiFi. I think you'd spot your neighbor plugging one of these into your outside outlet and running a 100' bright blue ethernet cord up to his bedroom window...


bmfb1980


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bmfb1980
Sage97 wrote:I realized that this particular product is for wired connections only. Not wifi. Still in for one. Hope it works.



You need a wireless AP. Turn off the radio on your router (they all s*ck, even on the new/fancy MIMO routers).

Go get a unifi access point, from ubiquiti products. I have 2 in my house at opposite ends. COMPLETE coverage of 3.5 acres of wooded property. NO dead zones anywhere. And that's with just 2 units @ roughly 70 apiece on that 'BAY' site.

Improviz


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Improviz
bmfb1980 wrote:Yes, you can. Don't confuse "router" with "switch" though. You should only have 1 router in your entire network. You can have 1,000 switches.



Exactly. I use PowerLine adapters (not these but another NetGear model) to create an ethernet drop in my living room. I have a 5-port NetGear unmanaged switch plugged into the receiver there. Then my Tivo, BluRay, TV and Onkyo Receiver all connect via hard line. My Onkyo is also on WiFi. It works very well with a little switch. (Also, never, EVER use HUBS on your network if you can help it).

drakar2007


quality posts: 4 Private Messages drakar2007
bmfb1980 wrote:This device does NO coverting of signal whatsoever. The ethernet cable is COPPER wire. Your household electrical lines are COPPER wire. COPPER = COPPER.


I'm not an electrical expert by any stretch, but having wired ethernet ports by hand before, and noting that ethernet wires have 8 discrete copper endpoints, and 8 is (last I checked) a greater number than 2, being the approximate(?) number of wires being passed around by 110v (if you leave out ground, anyway), I would have thought at least some signal conversion would need to be occurring in there somewhere.

Regardless, I use these in my house, on 2 separate circuits across 2 separate floors, to provide internet access to my main PC which is a PLEX server, and it seems to work great and experiences no bandwidth loss that I've been able to prove.

Jon651


quality posts: 43 Private Messages Jon651
bmfb1980 wrote:The proper term is "phase" for each side of the board. If your devices are all on the same phase, they are technically all inter-connected electrically. (A lightning strike will confirm that's why some of your things fry and some do not, based on which phase of the household current carried the lightning bolt to the ground.)



The common term is "leg", each leg being fed by it's own "hot bus bar" - but I wanted to keep it simple for the purposes of explanation. "Side" is easy for the uninitiated to understand - and easy for them to see when they open the cover and look at the breakers in their panel. Only use circuits on the same "side" of your panel - and don't cross the streams, that would be bad! (with apologies to Bill Murray).

As for what powerline network adapters actually do you are partially correct that they don't change the digital signal to something different then convert it back again. What they do is essentially change the frequency of the signal to one that won't be interfered with by the 60Hz of common household electrical power (in the US, in our case). Electrical utility companies have been doing that for years with their newer Smart Meters, which are eliminating the jobs of meter readers.

bmfb1980


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bmfb1980
drakar2007 wrote:I'm not an electrical expert by any stretch, but having wired ethernet ports by hand before, and noting that ethernet wires have 8 discrete copper endpoints, and 8 is (last I checked) a greater number than 2, being the approximate(?) number of wires being passed around by 110v (if you leave out ground, anyway), I would have thought at least some signal conversion would need to be occurring in there somewhere.



Oh, I guess those 44 guage, ridiculously tiny wires are exactly the same as a couple of 12 guage wires? Why doesn't the power company just use ethernet to bring power to your home? Why don't electricians wire the house using ethernet instead of romex? LOL... There is some physics behind the transfer of power/signals along a metallic conductor, and it involves the surface area which is where all the signals (whether they be your internet porn, power to a light, or your Steel Magnolias soundtrack) actually move by electron displacement along the outermost layer of copper.

BUT, for the purposes of these magical transmogrifiers of the internet(s) into electricity we can reach by plugging in the collusionary receiver... the fact remains that you have a signal traveling along 8 tiny copper wires... then 2 bigger wires... then 8 tiny ones again. So your porn flows from modem to your upstairs bedroom, un-converted.

If you are remotely curious, I'd suggest a physics class to learn in more detail, including some cool formulas that explain all this magic.

I wish I had donald trump's hands, because I can relate to wiring TINY ethernet jacks. I just put cat 6 and fiber all throughout my home. 32 ethernet keystone jacks to wire. And 32 terminal ends to wire. Small hands would have been... well, um, handy...

bmfb1980


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bmfb1980
Jon651 wrote:I wanted to keep it simple for the purposes of explanation...you are partially correct that they don't change the digital signal to something different then convert it back again. What they do is essentially change the frequency of the signal...



I was trying to keep it simple also, but not so simple that the curious wouldn't bother to read and learn something lol. Maybe it's because they're all trying to put as many routers on the network as they can ;)

You are correct about the freq mod, though I suppose literally everything is *some* frequency, so I don't equate changing of frequency to changing of the data or signal, unless the state of matter changes (i.e. physical to non-physical in the case of ethernet to wifi, though technically the electrical impulses on the ethernet are the same as the impulses OTA... just at a different frequency). Ouch I think my hippocampus just exploded.

Either way, these devices are nice and they've come a long way.

bmfb1980


quality posts: 0 Private Messages bmfb1980
Jon651 wrote:The common term is "leg", each leg being fed by it's own "hot bus bar" -



It's easy to be confused.

I'm going to correct myself... the common term "leg" is also "line" as most homes should have 2 lines and a neutral from the power company.

I'm going to adjust the idea of a "leg" however as it applies to the breaker box: In your breaker box, L1 goes to one side, and L2 to the other... SORT OF. Each "leg" supplies one PAIR of breakers across from each other.

So it is NOT a case of using just the left breakers, or the right. That is completely incorrect.

The term "leg" refers incorrectly to the "side" of the breaker box. But in reality, the L1 and L2 bus (in your main panel) run down the middle, in between the breakers. And they alternately supply *every other* row.

Since odd#'s are on the left, and even's on the right, that means that breakers 1 and 2 are on the same PHASE/LEG/LINE. the next couple of breakers down, 3 and 4, are on a DIFFERENT phase/leg/line.

This pattern repeats, alternating phases every row of circuit breakers. (if you have a double-breaker, it is using BOTH phases/legs/lines).

From my experience, these devices CANNOT cross phases so if they are plugged into difference circuits which happen to be fed power from a row on the other phase as the first circuit... they won't ever work. Trial and error is the only way to determine the phase in this case.

Say you have your transmitter plugged into an outlet using breaker #1. An outlet may not work (you find out it is supplied by breaker 3), while one on the other side will (powered by breaker 9) because... even if a different circuit... that circuit is powered on the same phase/line/leg (i.e. breaker ). Rows for breakers 3 and 5 are adjacent and thus on different phases. Electrically, they are isolated from one another and CANNOT "communicate".

For my example, breakers 1+2, 5+6, 9+10, 13+14, 17+18 are on phase A, while 3+4, 7+8, 11+12, 15+16 are all on phase B. These devices will ONLY work if both are plugged into outlets using the same phase (regardless of circuit/breaker).

Well, I lied. The ONLY way to fix it and have everything in collusion is to use a "phase coupler" installed as a double breaker. This will bridge the 2 legs electrically so all your UPB and X10 and powerline devices work no matter what circuit/breaker/phase they are using. There are several model out there (leviton coupler repeater, or the simply automated phase coupler)

alphanode


quality posts: 0 Private Messages alphanode
bmfb1980 wrote:This device does NO coverting of signal whatsoever. The ethernet cable is COPPER wire. Your household electrical lines are COPPER wire. COPPER = COPPER.



If you want to get petty over the word "converting" then fine, don't call it converting, whatever - bottom line is you can't take the raw signal from your ethernet cable and put it onto the copper wires in your home and have it work. You need some device to modify and filter that signal such that it can be transmitted across the wires in your home and deal with the "noise" generated by the power transmission.

FYI, its called the "Skin effect", if anyone wants to learn more about it, but I'm not sure why you are bringing that into the discussion.
Fortunately there are a lot of people smarter than you or I that have figured out EXACTLY what needs to be done, so despite having taken the physics, electrical, and networking classes that touch on these topics, I'm happy to just sit back and let the magical electron gnomes do their thing.

fuzzbox


quality posts: 3 Private Messages fuzzbox
bmfb1980 wrote:[sigh] you can only have 1 router on your network. if you have more than 1, DCHP must be disabled on all but 1 (unless you are doing something fancy with subnets). Your router should be connected to the modem by 1 ethernet cable.



So you're saying this won't work?


Or that it will, I just have to figure out how to do DHCP stuff. (which I'm sure I can, it just needs troubleshooting)

Jon651


quality posts: 43 Private Messages Jon651
bmfb1980 wrote:
Since odd#'s are on the left, and even's on the right, that means that breakers 1 and 2 are on the same PHASE/LEG/LINE. the next couple of breakers down, 3 and 4, are on a DIFFERENT phase/leg/line.

This pattern repeats, alternating phases every row of circuit breakers. (if you have a double-breaker, it is using BOTH phases/legs/lines).

For my example, breakers 1+2, 5+6, 9+10, 13+14, 17+18 are on phase A, while 3+4, 7+8, 11+12, 15+16 are all on phase B. These devices will ONLY work if both are plugged into outlets using the same phase (regardless of circuit/breaker).



(Your reply edited for desperately-needed brevity!)

You are absolutely correct - I had forgotten that each left + right pair of breakers were on the same leg, as are alternating rows as you describe. Just goes to show how long its been since I installed one - the left and right hot bus bars serpentine to alternate rows in the back of the panel.

Therefore I will alter my advice - If you want to use a powerline adapter and you need to go between two different rooms on different circuits, try to make sure they are on the same leg of the breaker box. Follow this example when looking inside your electrical panel:

Leg A: Breakers 1,2,5,6,9,10,13,14, etc.

Leg B: Breakers 3,4,7,8,11,12,15,16, etc.

Using network powerline adapters that are all on either Leg A OR all on Leg B will help insure that the signal will get through.

As an example, your network modem/router comes into your house in your living room (breaker #6) and you need to connect your computer in your office (breaker #14) - they will work. But when you try to connect the computer in your daughter's bedroom (breaker #11) that won't work.

And now I've spent WAY too much time on this topic. Enjoy!

Jon651


quality posts: 43 Private Messages Jon651
fuzzbox wrote:So you're saying this won't work?


Or that it will, I just have to figure out how to do DHCP stuff. (which I'm sure I can, it just needs troubleshooting)



If all you are looking for is wi-fi, then it seems like you could save your self a few bucks if you eliminate one powerline adapter and one router off the same floor and just put in a stand-alone wi-fi extender to cover the dead zones in your house (top of the stairs sounds like a good place). Not only would that save some money, but also simplify the set-up and reduce any aggravation trying to keep all of the powerline adapters on the same electrical leg.

Just my two cents worth. Your mileage may vary.

dalem589


quality posts: 7 Private Messages dalem589

I love these things, been using them for years to extend my wifi into many areas in my house, with a direct connection. Never had a problem with them. I do in fact use this brand, just not this model. I am ordering these tho because of the pass through outlet.

ihsoft


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ihsoft
bitman362 wrote:Anyone considered that this is not very secure?
On WiFi you have encryption like WAP2 (even with Krack, its better than nothing).
Ethernet has no encrption because its supposed to be point-to-point. So scattering it over power lines means just about anybody can tap in.
Got an outside plug? That's now an entry point into your home network.
Enjoy...



This is actually a big concern for me. I wonder if there is a way to "silence" the signal post-breakers?

spencersy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages spencersy

Can i ask its autovolt? Would it work for 220v? Thanks!

fuzzbox


quality posts: 3 Private Messages fuzzbox
Jon651 wrote:If all you are looking for is wi-fi, then it seems like you could save your self a few bucks if you eliminate one powerline adapter and one router off the same floor and just put in a stand-alone wi-fi extender to cover the dead zones in your house (top of the stairs sounds like a good place).



I see, but (and pardon my cluelessness) If I already get a weak signal in an area, wouldn't an extender just amplify a weak signal and introduce noise and interference, making the situation worse? I haven't heard great things about extenders in general.

Jon651


quality posts: 43 Private Messages Jon651
fuzzbox wrote:I see, but (and pardon my cluelessness) If I already get a weak signal in an area, wouldn't an extender just amplify a weak signal and introduce noise and interference, making the situation worse? I haven't heard great things about extenders in general.



While extenders are not a panacea, they can work well in many circumstances. You don't put the extender in the area of weak signal, you put it on the edge of the area where you get GOOD signal and it extends it to cover the area where there is weak or no signal - like a relay.

When set up, some extenders create a new network name (for example it adds "ext" on the end of your current network's name) and some just keep the original network name so all your device ever sees is a single network in the entire house. There are plenty of options to get a refurb unit inexpensively to try it out without killing your wallet.

Also, if you have an old wi-fi router lying around you may be able to set it to relay your wi-fi signal (if it has the ability) so a brief read of the full user's manual would be a half-hour not wasted. Lots of advice and diagrams online for reference.

skitheo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages skitheo

I bought one set of these and plugged them in. While they do make a connection across the house, it is quite a slow one. This makes sense when you consider the physics (skin effect vs. frequency, etc.)

Best case: 135Mbps for 2 outlets in the same room

Typical: 15-65 Mbps for outlets across the house

Benefits:
- not subject to interference from other WiFi APs
- Metal in walls, floor, ceiling don't interfere

fritz5668


quality posts: 0 Private Messages fritz5668

Love it. Hooked up in a matter of minutes

ihsoft


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ihsoft

For those who are concerned about the security. These adapters do encrypt the connection, and there is a button that allows randomizing the key, i.e. you may make your network private and the other devices won't be able to connect until explicitly sync'ed.

I haven't found the encryption specification on this devices, but it's likely AES since this is a standard for this kind of the devices. In overall, AES is a strong encryption protocol, but depending on the exact implementation it can be more or less susceptible to the attacks. If you're very concerned, you can just randomize the key every week, and this will protect your adapters with almost 100% guarantee (unless you're being hacked by NSA).

Btw, my maximum speed was 350 Mbit/s. This is for the case of plugging the both adapters into the same power socket. Since it's the best possible condition, I'd say 350 is the physical maximum.